Episode 9 – Authentic Conversations with Colleagues: Thinking about Art, Music, and Dance with Young Children – with Victoria Armstrong

Victoria, owner of Side by Side Consulting Services, is a skilled thinking partner for early childhood educators and brings many rich experiences and wisdom to this 2-part conversation. In this episode, and part 1, we engage is an authentic, reflective, and open conversation to explore our experience with, and our ideas about young children’s experiences with art, music, and dance. We discuss parallel practices of play, the importance of building relationships with high quality materials, and the influence of time in getting to know materials such as clay or a guitar. If you’re curious about how you can support and honour children’s expression through various art forms, this episode is for you!

What was extra magical about this conversation was that Victoria and I had many, many deeper reflections once we listened back to this recording. Despite both being engaged during the conversation, we noticed new ideas that didn’t stand out to us the first time, and were blown away by the layers of ideas woven throughout this conversation. These new noticings and wonderings led us to realize how many more conversations are yet to be had on this topic. While episode will be out mid-April, I’m sure this is just the beginning of many more conversations between us about this topic.


Gandini, L. (Ed.). (2005). In the spirit of the studio: Learning from the atelier of Reggio Emilia. Teachers College Press.

Pelo, A., & Carter, M. (2018). From teaching to thinking: A pedagogy for reimagining our work. Exchange Press.

Pelo, A. (2016). The language of art: Inquiry-based studio practices in early childhood settings. Redleaf Press.

Home, or lack thereof

“Home is created and recreated when I pick up and move unearth my roots maybe I’m meant to pass through. I see where I’ve harvested exploded in marketing and places that I am not native to“ (Barton, 2021).

I’ve been thinking a lot about what it means to be on a journey and how home is a place that is more temporary concept rather than a physical space. For many, homes are rebuilt across seasons, created out of scraps, everyday natural materials, and merely a space imbued with meaning. I have been thinking about home especially with this idea of high turnover and low recruitment and retention in the field of early learning and child care. With educator movement, we also have new homes often.In our current system, children have new (classroom) homes every year, every 4 seasons. Sometimes we are visitors, which makes me wonder, how well do we visit each other’s homes? For those of us who are settlers and immigrants, how well do we visit upon the lands we are hosted on for the remainder of our lifetimes? How well do we host others in our own homes, however temporary the home may be? I am enjoying the idea of all homes being non-permanent, and unravelling our territorial feelings. How does the idea of transient homes connect to our understandings of community?

“You keep remembering the first time you saw a bird’s nest, held together by an old shoe lace and scraps of a plastic bag. You knew the home of a person could be built like that, a lot of things you’d rather throw away” – Andrea Gibson

Episode 8 – Pondering Pathways: Play! (Part 2)

Welcome back to a playful episode about play! While I intended for this episode to be about play theorists, the benefits of play, and how play and learning are interconnected, I ended up taking a walk and capturing some recent reflections from my own practice and experience about how I value and notice play, lately. Here, I share my hot takes on keeping play alive in our language and observations, what I’ve been learning about Anishinaabe perspectives about animals (and how that, to me, feels playful) and  what children need post-COVID. I also included a voice note on my phone where I reflect on my own experience with play and sound lately, and Jean Clinton’s idea of positive upwards spirals/Carol Anne Wein’s suggestion of supporting the whirldwind effects of synergy and positive energy in classrooms. I’d love to hear your thoughts on play as well – how do you keep the play alive in your life? 

Just to clarify a few things, the children’s book I discuss is actually called Sometimes I Feel Like a Fox and the author is Danielle Daniel.

Jean Clinton’s idea of positive upward spirals is discussed in her book Love Builds Brains, but it’s also discusses in a conversation she has with Anne Douglas on YouTube.

Finally, Carol Anne Wein’s idea of the whirl wind effect is from the Think Feel Act document, Empowering Children in the Middle Years.

Episode 7 – Wondering About Inclusion From One Family’s Perspective, with Special Guest Sandy B.

What happens when a Human Resources manager (mom), a student teacher (middle sibling), and a grad student (eldest sibling) FaceTime for 5 minutes? Well, when it’s my family, we start theorizing about inclusion. What started as a spontaneous video call, turned into a deep conversation that challenged what we thought about inclusion, and called us to rethink how we have experienced inclusion of disability. This  prompted us to hit the record button to capture our wonderings, and it also prompted us to pause our conversation to include the most important perspective: Sandy. In my family, my youngest sibling, Sandy, lives with Down Syndrome, and in this episode she generously shares her ideas, opinions, and memories of attending multiple high school proms. This episode left me with more questions about inclusion and belonging, and begs for a next step in including  educators’ perspectives on the history of this particular example of inclusion. Just a reminder that there is a transcript of every episode available on Buzzsprout to assist in understanding what is discussed in each episode.

In this episode, we chat about one specific example of inclusion, which is a prom that is facilitated by the Life Skills Program that Sandy attended during high school. There are two different conversations that discuss the prom throughout the episode: a conversation between myself, Alison (my sibling), and my mom (the first half of the episode), and then a conversation between myself and Sandy (second half of the episode). Our intention here is not to actually critique the prom at all, because, as you find out, Sandy enjoys attending it. Instead, we are just capturing our fleeting perspectives about how the prom did or did not involve inclusion, and how it might end up looking different under various conditions. We don’t really have coherent opinions here, and its more of a wandering conversation with some wonderings musings, realizations questions about part of some of our experiences as a family as it pertains to inclusion, since our family has engaged with multiple institutions and programs that have had varying degrees of inclusion. We gravitated to this example of inclusion, the prom, because there is an analogy about how inclusion is being invited to the dance, but belonging is being asked to dance ( which I need to track down and cite, forgive me). So, by sharing my family’s perspectives on this dance, we hope it contributes to larger conversations about inclusion, accessibility, equity, voice, choice, and belonging.

We also invite feedback, additional perspectives, and other stories from lived experiences with various versions of events or programs for the purposes of accessibility and inclusion to be shared, and I would be delighted to engage in a follow up conversation with anyone who feels called to discuss this topic with me.

What did this episode make you curious about?

“As Music” – A Spoken Word Poem

I’ve decided that I wanted to more openly share some of the journey I’ve been on in terms of questioning, shedding, and challenging the colonial frameworks that I operate within the systems of oppression that I benefit from. One path forward that felt accessible to me was to start by looking at knowledge. Whose knowledge counts as credible? Where has discipline knowledge come from? I started this journey many years ago but became conscious of it during a graduate course about interdisciplinary approaches to knowledge. During this course I created a spoken word poem to mark where I was on my journey at the time. It’s now been a year since I created the poem and I’m feeling ready to share it, unedited. The poem is a winding reflection on knowledge, research, what I believed to be ‘reconciliation’, and music. The poem is purposely long, with little regard for time or efficiency.

Here’s a short rationale about writing and sharing the poem:

“This poem was created to help me gain confidence in presenting academic ideas through art. It is not a destination, but a landmark on my learning journey of decolonization and reconciliation as a scholar. It is both a call-to-action and a self-reflection that is intentionally non-linear and redundant, representing my current feelings towards academia, knowledge, efficiency, and rightness.

I have a more refined sense of where I am, who I am in relation with, how I engage in knowledge seeking, and who I am not….. In the poem I consider the things/beings I am in (shared) relationships with, and I speak directly to/with fellow graduate students, faculty, Indigenous individuals/communities, and myself. I also introduce myself to “all my relations” in an effort to identify where my personal and professional commitments lie.

“Finally, this poem pledges that my knowledge-seeking endeavours will not be completed in isolation. They will be playful and expansive and equity-seeking all at once, as I listen and contribute simultaneously. They are, in part, communal acts, two-way conversations, with all involved relations, through call-and-response engagement, expression, and communication.

As is reconciliation.

As is music.”


“I knew it!” I’ve said, only to feel regret,

once I find out I’m wrong.

have I been wrong all along? How do I respond?

and how do I shape this to song?

knowledge as rightness, determined by whiteness

and colonial structures of college

I ponder my wrongness to resist in honest

attempts to unsettle and resolve this 

the trust in precision, is stifling rhythm, 

fixation with facts is so loud

turn it down, I’m not proud, it overpowers the crowd

we’ve forgotten how to play with sound

we discuss, relate, debate, agitate

and approve whose knowledge is true

we read books and papers dissect the layers

to decide whose knowledge gets moved

do you feel the groove?

is this even good science? tby rightness?

how can I make a transition?

from regurgitation to conversation

how can I learn to listen?

what’s my role in this, am I complacent, worse – 

my developing praxis

co-opts ways of being so I don’t stop reflecting 

on each of my actions 

do you hear this?

yet I put my head down, say nothing out loud

settle into the academic 

ways that exist in mentorship process,

calibrating to scholarship

“grad schools lonely! But never boring!”

is what I have heard all year. 

but I thrive on my own (see my first canoe solo!)

so… won’t I shine here?

only to find that again I’m not right,

so how do I relate to this sense? 

of place and wonder and stories and blunder

perhaps all pretense and nonsense. 

I feel like a starving solo artist.

to reconcile my feelings of intuitive believing 

with not always being correct

is an act of resisting the structures and systems 

that regulate knowledge as fact

where’s the music in that?

what we know grows, it comes and goes 

and flows in a rhythm we prose

as conversation, tiny revelations, 

that never exist alone

and spark revolutions in each institution

to reimagine our futures

and ignite something fiery to undo the binary 

and provide some resolution 

can I make a musical contribution?

you know that feeling when time is twisting

and you’re so engorged in the process

plans become abstract, bending to match

a rhythm undistorted by facts 


we need more of that 

there’s no finish or start to this, stop rushing knowledge

these paths are winding and infinite 

no linear progression in life lessons

they’re just interconnected

to think in relations means intimacy and faith in a

two-way conversation (Breen, 2019)

a dance of equity and accountability

with edits of refinement and persuasion 

sound is much more than entertainment

my knowledge is one piece, you may have another, 

and neither alone may be whole 

but together we weave a cohesive story 

that creates a little home 

maybe I’m not playing solo

hah, but home, you see, that’s again where we’re wrong

we’ve been telling lies all along 

home is the problem, only some beings blossom,

when we’re singing a stolen song

this predisposition to ask questions

of ownership and acquisition

unsettle institutes and dig up the roots,

to unoccupy the settlement of wisdom (Tuck & Yang, 2012)

remain responsive, relocate as wanted

reposition again and again 

be slightly nomadic, flexible by habit

home is created and recreated when 

I pick up and move, unearth my roots,

maybe I’m meant to pass through

I see where I have harvested, exploited, and marketed

in places that I am not native to

while there’s no place like home, and I can’t do this alone

who I am to think I’m of service,

to groups I’m not part of, I don’t hold the knowledge

and to think otherwise is a disservice

so I recalibrate, reroute, and migrate

to some space in-between

comfort and a front door, my thirst for more

means I find new ways of being

‘cause I won’t play along, when I don’t like the song 

and nothing really resonates, 

it’s too big or too small, doesn’t fit at all, 

then it finally it begins to dissipate

rodent models of schizophrenia 

my lived experience with mania, 

my research and knowledge converge

from big data privacy 

to interview anxiety

new interests mean I feel heard

nature-based pedagogy to Mad Studies

self-compassion and musicality

these things I know, although I may outgrow

my learning it emerges indefinitely

knowledge comes as we need it (Breynton, S, personal communication, December 3 2020), 

no need to master it  

just trust in the process 

it is a forest (Interdisc Class, 2020), no need to engorge in it

let curiousity be your compass

while unlearning is unnerving, unsettling, disturbing

it’s birthing new ways of being 

a yearning for learning that trusts in the journey 

of investing in our shared meanings

I hear a tune in building

my ears can’t yet decipher such sophisticated cultures

of beings all interconnected

that linger in dependence a fermata suspended  

to know who we are is all relative 

so to all my relations, future generations 

and ancestors, it’s so good to meet you.

I hear your songs: can’t wait to sing along

in a tune rings true for you too.

so who am I? and what do I do?

I’m Kim, not Kimberly, except for my family 

and I play/work/live on the lands

of Dish with One Spoon, an Educator who

belongs to tributaries of the Grand 

and what does it mean for me to be an ECE

and occupy space as student

my roles have oppressed, and I feel unrest

in honouring that I am still human

while I’m no soloist I try to make the most of this

seeking serenity in solitude

a recovering positivist (Akers, T. personal communication, Dec 1, 2020), 

wanna-be psychologist

exploring alternative avenues

extending towards my energy source 

what’s my connection to land

“Through unity – survival, all flourishing is mutual” (Kimmer, 2013, p. 20)

(there’s) no sustainability in a one-woman band

for as far as I can see, when I die my body

will feed many more beings (Elrick, 2010)

may my creations outlive me,

through interdisciplinarity

art, music, and stories

you can call me creative but I kind of hate it 

the romanticization of novelty

to know it by heart is part of my art

seeking the free flowing, softly

yet with the pressure to achieve, 

I am constantly wondering 

what this means for my own identity

to share ideas liberally, 

am I still appealing

to the academy? 

my aim is to deviate but also celebrate,

those who have allowed me to be free

to make space for more changes and liberation and

know my positionality

by disrupting discourses and dominating forces

and offer restorying lessons

a retelling of history, new ways of thinking

and address ongoing abjection

in this conversation 

I ask that we widen 

the range of human responses (Barton, 2020)

considered normal and not just neoliberial

understandings of concepts

intentional erasure of experience and nature

don’t think it’s beneath us

to centre research on whiteness is an act of violence 

the silencing is so insidious 

so how do I collect, analyze, and protect

complexity of researching communities?

recomplicate play through a commitment to name

experiences are not captured through binaries

maybe thinking in metaphors (Kimmerer, 2013), expressing through symbols 

& narratives not to just benefit me

to investigate connections and the 100 languages (Edwards, Gandini & Foreman, 1998)

of experience captured through story

literacy of place at a poetic pace 

and grace for BIPOC students 

and new immigrants and research participants 

and the more than human

mindbody spiritual and the emotional (Kimmerer, 2013)

cultural teachings and sovereignty 

I cherish your company offer space for exploring

there’s always time for tea with me (Imai, R., personal communication, November 29, 2019)

well-being expression engagement belonging (Ministry of Education, 2014)

how to foster these but not police 

From Teaching to Thinking (Pelo & Carter, 2018), listening to possibilities

that’s my commitment within the academy

that is not to say that we’re all the same,

or that we can melt the past away

but if we can at least play in the same game 

or maybe in the same key

then, I imagine we are all just passionate

players in floral orchestras

choruses of dissonance, can you hear us?

aligning in harmonic performances

I think… I may not be right, 

I’ve been so protected by white,

I aim to know things differently, a gesture that learning 

is never ending in life

it’s symbiotic, entrancing, melodic, expansive

with evasive solutions

synchronicity, in many of ways being through

research as reconciliation (Wilson & Dupre, 2019) as music

so we dance and we play, listen and create

in rounds that build in crescendo

conversing through harmonies, like little symphonies,

in call and response like a tango

and I stumble my way down pedagogical veins, 

admiring roots and leaves 

I follow, I lead, everything in-between 

as I realize that knowledge is breathing

it’s coming and going, ebbing and flowing

iterative and evolving

sense-based and spiralized, enduring over time, 

it’s living, too, so be kind

it’s alive (Breen, A. V. personal communication, Dec 3, 2020) 

and it’s mighty, 

but I must tread lightly,

for it is not mine

it’s passed down by folks

I’ll never dance with or know,

so, I must know, responsibly. 

just like rightness and wrongness 

not binary opposites 

neither are unknowing and knowledge 

both oppressed and oppressor 

student and professor






Barton, K. [Kim Barton]. (2020, Oct 27). Kim Barton family theory presentation [Video]. YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1dQrrVUw1A&feature=youtu.be

Breen, A. V. (2019). You do not belong here: Storying allyship in an ugly sweater. In Wilson, S.,

Breen, A. V., & DuPré, L. (Eds.), Research and reconciliation: Unsettling ways of knowing through Indigenous relationships (pp. 49 – 59). Canadian Scholars.

Deane, P. (2018, May 22). A guide for interdisciplinary researchers: Adding axiology alongside ontology and epistemology. Integration and implementation insights [Blog post].

Edwards, C., Gandini, L., & Forman, G. (Eds.). (1998). The hundred languages of children: The Reggio Emilia approach – Advanced reflections (2nd ed). Greenwood Publishing Group.

Elrick, M. (2010). Dwelling Where I Teach: Connections with Friluftsliv. Pathways: The Ontario Journal of Outdoor Education22(3), 4-10.

Hooks, B. (2006). Love as the practice of freedom. B. Hooks. Outlaw Culture. Resisting Representations, 243-250.

Interdisc. Class (2020, Sept 15). Metaphor assignment and poems [Class Assignment]. FRHD*6340.

Kimmerer, R. W. (2013). Braiding sweetgrass: Indigenous wisdom, scientific knowledge and the teachings of plants. Milkweed Editions.

Ontario Ministry of Education. (2014). How Does Learning Happen? Ontario’s Pedagogy for the Early Years. http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/childcare/howlearninghappens.pdf 

Pelo, A., & Carter, M. (2018). From teaching to thinking: A pedagogy for reimagining our work. Exchange Press.

Tuck, E., & Yang, K. W. (2012). Decolonization is not a metaphor. Decolonization: Indigeneity, education & society1(1).

Wilson, S., & Hughes, M. (2019). Why research is reconciliation. In Wilson, S., Breen, A. V., & DuPré, L. (Eds.), Research and reconciliation: Unsettling ways of knowing through Indigenous relationships (pp.6 – 19). Canadian Scholars.

Episode 6 – The embedded, embodied, and imbued with Bob Henderson

In this episode, I had the great pleasure of chatting with outdoor education ‘guru’ Bob Henderson. As an experienced educator, guide and writer, Bob exudes wisdom when discussing of ways being with people outdoors. Through this conversation Bob and I find many not-so-surprising connections between my own experience as a student and Bob’s experience as an educator, despite Bob never teaching me. We cover everything from adventure narratives to play as cultural defiance to the value of baking cinnamon buns on trip. Running with Bob’s ideas, we reflect on multiple ways of being, the role of relationality while being outdoors, the usefulness (or lack thereof) of hobbies, being in the present, tumbling and fumbling, and the possibility of ‘joy’ conferences in the future. This conversation is full of nuggets of wisdom for nature-based educators everywhere!

Bob disentangles simplicity, complexity, and complication, and demystifies the intentionality of teachable moments,

“Let’s be here together well. Let’s be playful, let’s be joyous, let’s really come to feel the presence of the place we’re in and the presence of each other. Let’s develop high level relationality”

Somethings I still have to look up to properly share and cite include the following:

  • Einstein book
  • Gattow Taylor book – hidden curriculum
  • aldo leopold: culture and landlessness have being synonymous
  • Play by dr. stuart brown
  • aldo leopold quote: play as cultural defiance
  • who needs a worldwind trip when you can take it slow: slow travel movement
  • john steinback: people don’t take good trips, good trips take people
  • sigmund

Episode 5: COEO Reflections

In this solo episode I reflect on my experience attending the fall conference held by the Council of Outdoor Educators of Ontario (COEO). I wander through reflections and realizations that I had during the conference and since, covering themes of what ‘belonging’ means and to whom, the limits of the English language, and my obsession with spirals. Note: this episode was recorded at the beginning of October 2021.

Some things I discuss and said I’d link to:

The Playful Podcast Episode 4 – Glorified Babysitting

In this solo episode I reflect on the fight that ECEs are in to professionalize our work and gain respect by leveraging away from being considered as glorified babysitters. I wander through wonderings about different types of care and education across time, space, and cultures, and ask questions that feel unsettling to my own identity as an ECE. Note: this episode was recorded at the beginning of Sept 2021.

A special note: some of the information I shared in this episode came from being present at events and listening to Indigenous activists share their stories. I tried my best not share information that I would have had to ask permission to share, but I still don’t know how to appropriately cite this kind of knowledge. Therefore, my message to you, if you find this knowledge insightful and motivating, is to get out and physically or virtually attend events run by Indigenous communities to learn about the local knowledge that they hold and that they are willing to share with you.

The statistics I shared about residential schools can be found here:

The book I reference by Kim Anderson and Jessica Ball can be found here (but, if you can, I beg you to find another place to buy it).

The Two-Row Paddle of the Grand information can be found here:

The history of self-care and black panthers; all information I shared was from here:

Carol’s Garboden Murray’s Illuminating Care book and facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=illuminating%20care%3A%20the%20pedagogy%20and%20practice%20of%20care

#boringselfcare posts can be found by @makedaisychains on insta: https://www.instagram.com/p/CHDqLdUBTJn/

Feminist Ethics of Care articles:

  • Langford, R. (Ed.). (2019). Theorizing feminist ethics of care in early childhood practice: Possibilities and dangers. Bloomsbury Publishing.
  • Powell, A., Johnston, L., & Langford, R. (2021). Equity Enacted: Possibilities for Difference in ECEC through a Critical Ethics of Care Approach. Equity as Praxis in Early Childhood Education and Care, 65.

Pay Caregivers Fairly episode on Call Your Girlfriend: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5EIAn1QAR4oDothi3T279x

Instagram posts discussing the suspension of systems of interdependence: https://www.instagram.com/p/CTFBmEBH3Ww/

Ladyweb epsiode on Call your Girlfriend: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0glfXLvhEmLGP70yZyTW9p

Braiding Sweetgrass (Kimmerer)
“Through unity survival. All flourishing is mutual”

How We Show Up, Mia Birdsong: http://www.miabirdsong.com/how-we-show-up

Ontario’s changes to support rec and leisure more: https://www.ontario.ca/page/before-and-after-school-programs-what-parents-and-providers-need-know

Carol Garboden Murray quote about babysitting: https://www.facebook.com/carolgarbodenmurray/photos/a.124546839303044/327023165722076/

Educators as co-learners and researchers: https://www.ontario.ca/page/how-does-learning-happen-ontarios-pedagogy-early-years

#ichosepreschool: https://www.instagram.com/p/CTTVAUrsTgM/?utm_medium=copy_link

The Playful Podcast Episode 3 – Play! (pt. 1)

Brief summary of shownotes and references:

The Playful Podcast Episode 2 – Prerequisites to Play

In this solo episode, I introduce a mini-series that I intend to continue called Pondering Pathways, where I take a walk around my neighbourhood while reflecting on what is required to access play. I follow up from my questions about Treaty 3 from my first episode and then I contemplate some systemic limitations related to ability, race, socioeconomic status, and culture. I take a deep dive into some thoughts about music in early learning, seasonal outdoor play, and what is required to engage with sophisticated environments and tools. This episode is a little bit of an experiment… it’s a bit choppy or distorted at times and includes some input from the more-than-human world.

  • In this episode I start by following up with my action item from the first episode and share some information I learned about what Treaty 3 is. I stumble my way through discussing an article written by Dr. Brittany Lubby and Dr. Alison Norman about Treaty 3, their history class, and Anishinaabe culture. Here is the full quotation: “Caroline Bridge: Due to the large bodies of water being dealt with in Treaty Three, we can speculate that input from the Nation’s women was important. Women in Anishinaabe culture, of which the Mississaugas are a part, are considered “Keepers of Water,” meaning that when it came to the usage of water, their word was likely to have been considered invaluable in 1792.”
  • I briefly mention my reflections on water as a white settler begin with this Instagram post, and the time of writing this there are 7 total posts documenting these reflections, plus a few others in there that are clearly related.
  • As I stepped outside and started discussing outdoor play and nature-based learning, I reflect on the quotation “there’s no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothing”. I had no idea who initially offered this quotation, but with some digging it seems that most people attribute it to Alfred Wainwright although that appears debatable. I need to also say that my reflections about expensive clothing and sensory integration are not my own. I wish I had kept tabs on where I first learned about being critical about this quotation, but I can only track down a few references that I consulted prior to recording this episode:
  1. Regarding how sensory integration occurs outdoors, I learned about this whenI attended a talk by Jon Young and Kathleen Lockyer put on by the Guelph Outdoor School. Kathleen’s website is available here.
  2. I started reflecting on Canadian winter culture after reading this article. Some of the international differences in outdoor play that I referred to are likely discussed here, although I haven’t yet read it (I’ve just read other work by the authors).
  3. A few inspiring resources for playing outdoors with children include the book There’s no Such Thing as Bad Weather, Balanced and Barefoot and Last Child in the Woods,
  4. The clothing library I discussed was from Outdoor Play and Learning as discussed at a Conference by the Council of Outdoor Educators of Ontario.
  5. “..long periods of uninterrupted play” is a concept that is discussed in Ontario’s Pedagogy for the Early Years
  • When I talked about the affordances available in wild spaces, this comes from authors like:
  1. Dr. Mariana Brussoni
  2. Dr. Zahra Zamani
  3. Dr. Helen Little
  • When I reflected on what counts as musical play, I speak from a place of being really inspired by Dr. Susan Young’s work. Here is an example of some of her work related to playing with music in early childhood.

Thanks for listening!

Stay playful